We began a bit of this discussion in class yesterday. Lets dig deeper into this topic. Please read the article at this link and share your thoughts. Do you think that men and women are really that different? If there are differences, how much of those differences are biologically and/or socially based? Or, are we more alike than we think?Please share your thoughts on this topic.
14 Nov. 2010
Hello All,
Great comments!! I apologize for the dead link. It seems that the article was removed. Here is a link to a more interesting article. Please let me know your thoughts.
http://www.oregoncounseling.org/ArticlesPapers/Documents/DifferencesMenWomen.htm
I think that the differences are both, biologically and socially based.
AntwortenLöschenThe biological difference can be illustrated because of the hormones.
I think everybody know that the male hormone is the testosterone and the estrogen belongs to the females.
Men definitely got one bid advantage. Because of their testosterone they have got more muscles (15 % more) than women and they build up muscles easier and faster. This is the reason, why men do not freeze as often as women do! ;)
The hormones also make differences of shaping themselves. Women shape themselves by their figure and compare themselves to other women. That's the reason why women always talk about weight and diets. Hence most of the anorexic are women.
Men in contrast shape themselves by their muscles. They want to be as strong as possible.
Furthermore there are some social based differences. You can see them almost today. When a woman get a baby, than she has to stay at home and look after the baby, while the man went away and earn money, That is the reason why most of the chefs of nog companies are men.
Furthermore there is another big difference between men and women. The amount of words they use per day. It is said, that women speak about 20000 words per day whereas men only speak about 7000 words per day. Here you can see another difference. Women talk about their problems and men most of the time not and some days ago i heard something about a survey which says that most of the suicides are executed by men( a prominent example of this is Robert Enke).
I think sometimes men are at the end of their ropes, because the patience of women respective communication. ;)
But there must be a reason why its said: 'women are the better man' :D :P
Are men from Mars and women from Venus? My first reaction when I read that question was yes. Then I read the article and realized that I think some things there are not as true as they seem at first sight. In this article it seems (except for the last few sentences) that all these things listed there apply to every man and every woman in the same way and this is definitely not true. Men and women are different, of course, and I'll come to this later once again. However, I think there are also huge differences amongst men and huge differences amongst women. Every person is an individuum and you cannot generalize everything because some things "typical" for men apply to many women, too and of course also the other way round. When I think about this men-women-issue, I often come to think about the comedian Mario Barth who makes fun of these differences. I know that many people think that he is totally right, but when I hear him talk about what is "typical" for a woman, I always discover that most of these "typical things" do not apply to me. So am I an exception here or are there just too many clichés?
AntwortenLöschenI already said that I think that men and women are different in some areas. In my opinion, this has a lot to do with their breeding, the way they grow up. Imagine a boy playing with barbies. It sounds odd to us and to most of the parents, too. But why? We learned that some things are normal for boys and some things are normal for girls. And even if we do not do it consciously, we tend to influence children at their very early childhood. Boys often hear phrases like "Don't cry, or aren't you a man? Tough men don't cry!". They internalize these things and this might be a reason why most of the men later on seem to be less emotional than women.
Still, I think, deep inside, there are many things that men and women have in common. We are all human beings, we are all looking for love, we want to be accepted, we have the same longings... and who knows in how many ways we would be more similar if there weren't these clichés we have been confronted with since we were children?
In general, you might find things typical for men and things typical for women because of these clichés, but you should never forget that everyone's and individuum and might differ from what is regarded to be typical.
I clicked the link. The response was some site offering links to sexy Indonesian women.
AntwortenLöschenI don't think (anyway) that male and female humans are this different. There is a difference in the chromosomes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosomes
I think what Lisza and Caro said before is totally right: Men and women differ in their hormones as well as their looks and so on because mother nature had the idea that men should be hunters and women should raise children and keep the family together. However, since we crawled out of our caves, especially women have tried to show that they can be men's equal in every way. Today there are women who are head of companies and men staying at home raising the kids.
AntwortenLöschenAs Caro mentioned, there are always exceptions to generalization, but despite all the emancipation that's been going on for ages, we still find ourselves restricted by gender-specific predjudices: boys don't cry, if a man takes *Erziehungsurlaub* he is totally *unmanly*, if a woman works for a construction company, she must be a lesbian, etc.
Right now, we still have certain hormones and differences in i.e. strength, muscles, talents that are leftovers from another long-gone era...
But think about this: Evolution is constantly going on: At the beginning we lived in caves and were all furry to protect us from the cold etc.
Right now we lost mainly all of our body-hair (well, most of us have) because we got clothes to keep us warm.
Maybe, in a couple of hundred years, men and women will not differ that much anymore and we'll have almost identical attributes.
Whether that would be such a good thing- I don't know. It was just a thought :)
I also agree to the opinions before...
AntwortenLöschenI think men and woman are definitely very different in some points, but like Caro said both are human beings and thus we also have many sharing characeristics or aims... Sure, men don't talk as much as women and women are more patient and so on, but I think these differences are mainly biological based und that is the way we are created.
Nevertheless, everybody is individual and has an individual character thus you have to be careful with this generalization like in this article. Women among each other also can be very different although they have the same sex... It is mostly depending on our genes.
Additionally the differences are socially based, too. In the past the women's jobs were cooking, cleaning and being responsible for the child. They didn't have to work, that was the men's buisness. Today this has already changed. Caused by the emancipation nowadays women have much more possibilities. There are not many, but a small number of men who can call theirelf "housemen". I think in our future women will develope theirself more and more and they will become more independent, so that there will not be a big socially difference between men and women...
Caro St.:
AntwortenLöschenI couldn’t open the link either. Anyway I will comment on the questions.
Indeed, I think that men and women are different! When you look at the outward appearance or at the behavior in general you recognize that there are significant differences between men and women.
I agree too what Caro has already mentioned above. Parents tend to influence children at their very early childhood to make them aware of the fact that they are completely different from each other. Hence these differences have its seeds in the childhood, where every child is still manipulative.
Actually everyone has the same chance and the same conditions, from the very beginning, with regard to the job.
The wide difference start when you take the biologically aspect into account.
I would say that you can distinguish a man and a woman simply by their looks
because the hormones change the appearance of a person which creates these differences.
Socially men and women don’t vary so much from each other. In my opinion it depends on the time we life in. A few decades ago women weren’t equal to men, but when we refer to the present time, there aren’t such big gaps between the women status in the society and the status of men anymore. Women are going to get more and more alike with men, referring to the social point.
Judith alludes to “the Evolution, which is constantly going on”. I think this is the main issue.
“Maybe, in a couple of hundred years, men and women will not differ that much anymore and we'll have almost identical attributes.” ,as J. describes it.
That is the only thing what I think men and women differ from.
Last but not least, it is remarkable that we become more and more identical alluding to the social aspect even though we are still different in the biologically aspect.
Finally, I suppose that we are more alike than we think we are, and in future there will be further approach.
When discussing the issue of gender differences,we must bear in mind that the differences between men and women are both, biologically and socially determined. In my opinion men and women share more differences than similarities.Scientists have already proved,that the woman's brain does not work as the one of the man.For instance,the language area in women's brain is more distinctive than the one of the men.
AntwortenLöschenConsequntly,a women talks much more than a man,she can speak about a topic for houres,whereas a man can only find few words.
Apart from this,I think that women are more emotional than men,they are more likely moved to tears than men and are not ashamed to show their emotions to other people whereas men
hide or even repress their feeling.Of course, this is generally spoken,which means that not all men or women behave in this way. Moreover, in many cases women do not share the interests of men.For example, men like playing football whereas women like going shopping,talking about fashion etc... Besides,I think that women and men differ,in that they are assigned different roles by society.Of course,the woman of today can do the same job as the man.However it is the woman, who has to take care of her children and it is she, who still has to cook. But why then are there couples who are happy in marriage?
Well...I would say that men and women can only understand each other by compromises.
Taking everything into consideration,I think that Men are really from Mars and Women really from Venus.Nevertheless,they can live a happy life together, as I mentioned before, by compromising with each other.
Rest assured that men and woman are both from earth.
AntwortenLöschenThey are different versions of the same genetic blueprint, so one mustn´t wonder about the fact that there are of course certain more or less obvious built-in differences. Scientists all over the world are busily exploring these.
Humans are, on the other hand, earth´s most socialy flexible animals. That explains the socialy based differences and gender roles (which themself differ tremendously between cultures like, say, Afghanistan and Sweden).
Happily, it also allows for enough common ground for both sexes to get by. Even if this ground is constantly disputed and negotiated ;)
Just a quick note concerning the link... When I clicked on it, it didn't work either. But you could have a look at the column at the left and there you could find an article called "Men & Women: differences" under the heading "Battle of sexes". I think this was the article we firstly talked about.
AntwortenLöschenhttp://peoplerelationships.syl.com/battleofsexes/differences
Well, it's a difficult matter when we take in consideration that there are lots of books written on the subject and nothing is going to change something...the stereotypicall men and woman ist going to exist everytime...
AntwortenLöschenOf course, when we look back in time there a considerable differences. Men worked outside the village or farm with his own animals and the woman lived inside the house and her function was to care for the kids to cook to keep the house clean and to do what the men wanted and never contradict.
But how we can see there are historically roots and society sculpts the people in their own utility.
But not only the society decides the ''role'' of men or woman. We can say that the ,,sex'' is also an important biological fact.
As we can see in J.Laare's comment there are basically distinctions in women an men behaviour or ''the way of solving a problem''.
Another important point that we have to consider is the education.
For example, a mother is telling her daughter almost everytime that she has to be polite, honest and helpful.
Isn't it rather the case that we are going to be pressed into a shape. I do not disagree to the fact that men and woman are different but not as it seems to be.
I can agree with the most comments I have read because I also think differences between men and women are based on a lot of different impacts. As most of you did, I would also differentiate between social and biological impacts.
AntwortenLöschenThe evolutionary process of our mankind is enormous, therefore we have developed cultural and social aspects. From my point of view, the combination of both, the biological aspect and the social is the basis of the differences between men and women. Due to our biological structure (DNA, individual specification, gender, etc.) we adapted best to our surroundings, therefore, we developed in such structures and direction we are today. But,during this process the social community has developed as well and differences between men and women have become more and more obvious due to the use of language, social behaviour, culture and traditions.
It is right, as it was said before, women and men have different attitudes and passions. There are some who act differently and do not apply to these sterotypes. But, in general you can say that a lot of the differences apply to men and women.
Furthermore, we can come back to the fact, that the brain connections are used differently and our hormones differ from one another, to mentoin only two examples. These are such profoundly differences in structure that I do not think that we can become more similar. Sure, equality is a big thing to create more similarities, but, this does not mean that structures will change. Our social behaviour can adapt to the other gender because of equality, respect and freedom of individuality - but, that's it.
So, in my eyes, men are from mars and women are from venus. But,the planets are clearly bounded that communication and understanding in parts is possible ;)
I would agree with the other statements given before. I also think that man and woman are very different and not only in their outward appearence.
AntwortenLöschenWhen we look back into history it says that woman have to stay at home and look after the kids and man have to go outside and hunt. I think that this understandíng of man and woman has changed a lot over the years. In some cases you will still find some patterns like the one I named before but not such as in history. Most women stay at home when they get a child and stop their career and only a few men would give up their job to look after the children. In some countries it is still very difficult for girls to go to school and get a good education. And also in germany women sometimes have to decide between having a child or a career/good job, but we are on the way to make both things possible. Therefor the society has to change the opinion that a woman who wants to work and gives her baby to a kindergarden is not a good mother.
To sum up, I would say that there are several reasons why men and women are different and that there are still things which have to change so that everyone gets the same chance.
Firstly I have to say that I am not a person who takes this topic too seriously. I do not feel offended by clichés concerning men and women. To me they rather contribute to a general amusement among men and women because I have to admit that sometimes these clichés really true to the gender in question, and even to myself. However on the contrary they can also be false.
AntwortenLöschenThe stereotypical image of a woman for example, as indicated in the article, is one of a person needing to share their problems in an extensive way with others, not only in order to solve them, but to straighten out their relationships. I think this is true, of course not to everyone, but of most women. This is attributable to their strong emotional nature and also to biological factors. Picking up on the last point (biological factors), I would immediately say that this is a profound reason why men and women behave in very different ways and it maybe provides us with an explanation as to their lack of mutual understanding. With regards to the period of menstruation, women react often in different ways, as everyone does to chemical processes going on in the body. So, they are often more sensible. This quite often causes misunderstanding among men because they never will be able to feel that way, to experience that process even if they wanted to.
Discussion of this issue also leads one to explore that never ending debate as to whether the traits exhibited by men and women are purely of biological origin or derived from the social environment, or perhaps a mixture of the two.
We all already know that in earlier times, such as the Middle Ages, men were responsible for the "production" and were known as the head of the house whilst women were ascribed for "reproduction" (cooking, children etc.). This image of women and men has been carried over thousands of generations and is still present in the minds of many. Consider that women have only been allowed to have their own bank account since 1954 in this country.
AntwortenLöschenBut why has this image survived for so many decades? - Surely, due to biological conditions, but far more due to social conventions stating women's and men's behaviour and their roles in society. It was a long struggle to obtain the liberty they now possess, but this change of social conventions shows that the immense differences among the sexes were also strongly linked to social factors.
It would appear that I favour the model comprising of two components (biological & social) interacting together and producing these differences. Certainly I think these interactions play a huge part and must be considered, however, analysing men and women from this point of view increases the impression that we want to force them into certain roles, into a corset of qualities - which basically would be a flawed view of mankind = ignoring autonomy of human beings which sets them apart from other living things. It would be like trying to explain the behaviour of people using some mathematical formula.
Finally, I would agree that there are certain differences between the sexes which have to be accepted. The acknowledgement of these differences can contribute to the improvement of our relationships. However one can't grasp a man or a woman's personality by applying some banal clichés or theories of biological conditions or social factors.
First of all, I also would like to agree with my precedessors. Differences between men and women are based biologically and sociologically. The biological givens are easy to establish, but the social differences are more difficult.
AntwortenLöschenso as not to repeat everything I'll quickly come to the my point of view:
I think that gender relating patterns of behavior can easily be influenced by the society and maybe even shaped by the society.
Media, and especially commercials which address to one specific gender, can shape and characterise may men or women. For example, many woman tend to buy cosmetics or a specific selection of clothes because a fashion concern places and sells it on the market. That does not mean that I don't think that all woment are equal and with no personality.
Moreover, I think that sometimes people like to fit in in those roles and often feel very comfortable with it
Personally, I would absolve myself of the most of those stereotypical suggestions, but when I observe myself I have to be honest. I also like to talk a lot with people and sometimes feel more sensitive than men might do.
However, there are also things around my person that would fit into an image of a 'typical man' rather than of an image of a 'typical woman'. That leads me to my last thought: you can't explain all diffences on a biological or social basis, sometimes people - man and woman - are simply what they are, nevermind the sex.
To my mind the differences between men and women are obviously genetically based. The XX or XY chromosoms do determine the hormonal balance of every human being and therefore the behaviour of any individual. But I think also that you can not generalize that „Men a from Mars and women from Venus“, because every person is an individual that can possess a mixture of both - the male and female gender characteristics - which can and will have a huge influence on the interaction with the opposite gender.
AntwortenLöschenI also agree with most of the statements.
AntwortenLöschenI, too, think that some differences come from natural differences and some come from social differences concerning how people are supposed to behave etc. and at least from parental education.
However, as most things are already said, I have to say, that I would absolutely hate it, if men were like women and the other way around, because I like men because I would find it really boring hanging around with a guy, who behaves like women do.
I like it, that guys don't talk that much, that they drive cars faster and often more dangerously than women do and at least I like it, that I can not follow their thoughts sometimes.. It would be pretty boring if I could unterstand every man everytime (although it would make many things easier).
Yes, men and women are different and these differences occur from several reasons. In my opinion, it is impossible to say, why exactly we differ from each other that much.
All in all, I have to say, that I prefer comming from Venus but I also like "marsian peolpe"..
I have to agree with Bella,
AntwortenLöschenwe are different, but for a good reason. The differences have their roots in many kinds of fields and can be genetically or because of the environment we are living in.
It is still interesting to look at their differences in detail.
Due to the fact that almost every argument was named, I´d just have to end the comment for now.
:P
I think men and women differ in both ways. As it is mentioned in the article the biological differences are obvious, but most problems occur due to social differences. It doesn't matter how someone is physically built. This does not have any effect on their behavior.
AntwortenLöschenI personally can think of many situations where interaction with men is a lot easier than with women. However, I was driving along with a (male) friend for 2 hours last week and there was nothing to talk about so we simply didn't. It was a great trip though.
I experienced the opposite with women. Sometimes I asked myself after a discussion what the sense in it really was and I can't figure it out. There is no use in rephrasing a problem, and not moving anywhere.
In conclusion I think men are more or less looking for a solution or sense in everthing. If there is no need to talk about something, we don't see the sense in it.
As I mentioned in the course already, there are some societies where our role system is turned the other way around - even nowadays existing - and I found a nice link to that. Unfortunately it is in German but I guess it might be interesting for you to read. Because of the existance of those societies lead by women I am convinced that the whole thing is more about society and education than about biology.
AntwortenLöschenThe funniest thing about that Mosuo society in China is that there is no violence, no arguments. People take it as a shame to argue with others. Life sounds so much better there.
So here is the link, enjoy reading:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0,1518,627103,00.html
PS: the Mosuo society is only one where women nowadays are leading, in human history there have been more, if anyone is interested in I'll try to find more links about.